The Atheist AA Blog

A.A. Gets Honest with Clergy about Atheists and Agnostics

2010-08-01T09:27:00.000-04:00

A.A. puts out a pamphlet, #25, called Members of the Clergy ask about Alcoholics Anonymous. It makes for some very interesting reading. It appears that A.A. is willing to tell the clergy things that it has a problem saying to the membership in general.

For example, in the Introduction, 3rd paragraph, it states:

"It would be unrealistic to assume that all A.A. members are spiritually inspired. Many, too, are not committed to a formal body of religious doctrine."

The second sentence is so obvious it's almost a non-starter. But the first sentence is a shocker. To hear that it is "unrealistic" to expect everyone in a God-driven program to be spiritually inspired is like saying "the god of your understanding is not important". Of course, there is no reason except tradition to link a god to "spirituality", since I am a spiritual person without a god. But A.A. doesn't link them together, either, at least not if you say one sentence "necessarily follows" the other, because it doesn't necessarily follow, and A.A. doesn't make it out to be that way.

But the next section of the pamphlet makes it clear that A.A. is indeed "religiously oriented", because they tell the clergy that A.A. is "a nonsectarian, nondenominational ally in their efforts to help alcoholics..." It would not be necessary to disclaim any link to a sect or a denomination if AA was entirely "sectarian".

" Sectarian groups are religious, political or ideological organizations whose services are limited to a particular sect..." So A.A. makes the truthful claim that they do not ally with any sect in particular, but we must assume that they are not secularist or they would plainly say so. Instead, they claim "non-sectarianism", the same as Universalist-Unitarian churches.

And yet, speaking of the honesty shown to the clergy, A.A. says that "Nonalcoholics attending an A.A. meeting for the first time are often surprised to note...[that] some members recount their drinking experience [in] a decidedly agnostic tone..."

If the GSO already knows this, why don't they tell those yokels down in Georgia who believe in the Christian God alluded to in the A.A. Big Book as though it was the Bible?

And under the heading of "Is Religious Belief Part of the A.A. Program?" the pamphlet specifically states:

"Individual members are free to interpret these values as they think best, or not to think about them at all." [emphasis added]

And going on, where the Big Book tells us several times in different ways that we will "find a higher power" or "find God", etc., this pamphlet merely says that members "will in time find an answer to this distinctly personal dilemma."

Step Two says we will come to believe in a power greater than ourselves; Step Three says we turn our will over to "the care of God as we understood him"; Step Five says we "Admitted to God"; and on and on.

But we are guided in the Steps by the Traditions, including Two: "For our purpose there is but one ultimate authority--a loving God..."

Then this little pamphlet tells the clergy that "The Traditions are not formally binding on A.A. groups." Period.

Show that one sentence to any person in A.A., even one who is not necessarily religious but still adheres to A.A. as closely as he can, and he will look at you with open eyed astonishment and say, "But!---then how is A.A. supposed to work? Those are our working guidelines!" I know this happens because I've shown it to people, and most of them are none to happy to see it in print. That makes it official.

There is more out there in our official material than we know about. How many dozen books have I never even laid eyes on, like all those from the Grapevine?

Never let another member tell you there is only one way to do things in A.A. The book "Living Sober" states, "There is no wrong A.A. way and no right A.A. way."

Alcoholics can get sober without god, since there is none. Bill Wilson was wrong about self-will; but we must direct our will toward what keeps us sober. A higher power (HP) is no power at all if it doesn't help us. But as you will read in the page titled Higher Power, Part 2, that HP does not necessarily need to be outside yourself. ©

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I Am My Own Higher Power When I Am Sober

2010-03-28T08:00:00.000-04:00

I did what anyone including you can do--I found truth and new ideas in old ideas.

Neither John Locke nor Emile Rousseau wrote about "individual sovereignty", and yet Jefferson and his friends were able to extrapolate from the writings of Locke and Rousseau on the subject of "popular sovereignty" the individualistic aspect. "Popular" sovereignty gains its "consent of the governed" because the sovereign individual consents; no one can do what they have no power to do, and therefore the power resides first in the individual, secondly in the republic.

By the same method, I extrapolated from Paul, in Romans VII, that I have the will power to be my own "higher power" so long as I do the "next right thing". [Note for the uninitiated: "next right thing" is a 12 Step phrase that means instead of not doing what we know we ought not to, we instead do what we see that we ought to do, even if it is painful to do. It means we do not ignore the "right thing" when we see it.]

In Romans 7, beginning with Verse 15, Paul said (with some editing to fit the context of how I came to my extrapolation),

¹⁵I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. ¹⁶And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. ¹⁷As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is [alcoholism] living in me. ¹⁸I know that nothing good [is possible] in me [so long as I continue drinking], that is, in my sinful nature.^[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. ¹⁹For what I do [in my alcoholic state] is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. ²⁰Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is [not the sober] I who do it, but it is [the insanity of alcoholism] living in me that does it.[Thank you to the New International Version for your online publication.]

And so I am able to state, contrary to the Alcoholics Anonymous "Big Book", that I am my own "higher power" when I stay sober. It is when I do not drink, and when I have stayed away from alcohol long enough to recover some of my ability to see more clearly those things that alcohol robs me of the power to see, that I can do the "next right thing" time and time again.

It is when we are actively using alcohol that we are unable to prevent ourselves in most cases from doing the right thing. We drink, then we drive, argue with the bartender, become aggressive when someone else pays attention to our significant other, we puke from the effects of alcohol on our systems, piss on the floor, pass out on someone's couch, and accomplish many other things in which we find our shame the next day.

It is when we are not drinking, when we are sober and actively working to remain a non-drinker, that we are able to begin doing the right things more often than we did the wrong things. "We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness," Bill W. wrote in the Big Book. "Our whole attitude and outlook on life will change." [Chapter Six, "Into Action"]

Paul was saying that it is "sin" in his body that causes him to do wrong, and sin in his body that prevents him doing right, even when he sees the right and the wrong. "Who will rescue me from this body of death? ²⁵Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!"

We atheists, and some agnostics, do not see sin as a substance capable of controlling our bodies, and we certainly do not see God as the way out of our misery.

But if we take that First Step and admit that we engage in wrong behavior when we drink, and that only when we are sober can we rationally analyze these two sides of our behavior and their causes, then we are implicitly admitting that we are "powerless" when we drink. By the same token, we have a higher power to be rational when we do not drink. So we explicitly take the First Step, admitting we are powerless over our own actions when we consume alcohol.

Since the power of reason is within my own mind--it is not something in the ether, or something in the water, or something in the act of accepting the supernatural--that I begin to diminish the insanity of irrationality by staying sober.

I am my own lowest power when I drink--not the devil, not "sin in my body", not supernatural demons who possess me, but me.

Reason is power. Irrationality makes me powerless to do the next right thing. I always want to do the next right thing, just like Paul. Paul admitted he was powerless over evil without God and Jesus by his side.

I admit I am powerless over doing what I know is right, and powerless sometimes to keep from doing what I know is wrong, when I do not have the higher power of reason on my side instead of a bottle in my hand.

Alcoholics can get sober without god, since there is none.
Bill Wilson was wrong about self-will; but we must direct our will toward what keeps us sober. A higher power (HP) is no power at all if it doesn't help us. But as you will read in the page titled Higher Power, Part 2, that HP does not necessarily need to be outside yourself. ©

The Atheist AA,
The Atheist AA Blog,
The First Free Church of Atheism

and the Google group
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An Atheist's Steps Two and Three

2010-03-19T09:29:00.002-04:00

Someone in the Atheist AA Google Group wrote to say he was beginning his 2nd and 3rd steps. Did anyone have any advice? I replied to him this way:

Step 2 - Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

I used to use the "tables", the "fellowship", etc as my higher power. I had a very good, Christian man as my second sponsor and even though he knew I was atheist, he helped me to see that I had my own "understanding" of God as merely the power that rules the universe. No sentient being "created" it; but there are physical laws at work.

Then after 3 years in AA I came to realize that I was my own higher power when I stayed sober. Now that is completely contradictory to the Big Book, which says we must have a power higher than ourselves.

But at a 3rd step meeting full of Christians I explained that when I was drinking I always wondered why I could not do what I knew was right, and why I kept doing the things that always proved themselves to be wrong. Most of the time I even knew they were wrong before I did them.

Why couldn't I do the right things? I tortured myself over this for many years, but never once told myself that alcohol was the beginning of the problem.

Then one day I had a "miracle of my understanding" (obviously not from a sentient deity). But it was immediate and powerful and extremely painful, because I swear I did most of the steps in the span of 1/10 of a second.

In one fell swoop I admitted I was powerless over alcohol, that my life had become unmanaged (not unmanageable).
Made a decision to do what I knew at that moment was right, and went to my first AA meeting.
I had made a searching but fearsome inventory of myself, or I would not have gone to AA.
I admitted to myself only, since there was no one in the car with me, what I knew about my wrongs.
I was entirely ready to let AA show me the way out of my problems.
I wanted out of my shortcomings, but of course it wasn't god who was going to do it for me; at least not a deity.
I was ready at that very 1/10 of a second to make amends for all the wrongs I had done people.
I sought the power to accomplish what I needed to do. AA was the right first step. I knew that.
I knew that I had had a remarkable spiritual awakening, but as I said it was fearsome. I can completely understand why some old-fashioned Christians thought God was angry and would bring down His wrath. I felt as if I had been hit by a ton of bricks.

So after that 3rd step meeting, a man approached me and said, "What you said about not being able to do the right thing and always doing the wrong thing and not knowing why, is what Paul said in Romans 7." And he thanked me for my insight.

I related this to my own sponsor, also an atheist, and he chuckled. He said, "It is remarkable that we atheists often see religious principles better than some who call themselves religious." It seems to be intuitive with us. We know what we do not agree with and we figure out why, so then we know that the religious people have sometimes only accepted on faith often without ever giving it that second thought that we give it.

So if you have the right sponsor, one who knows you cannot give in to a deity, or be humble enough to get on your knees, you will be able to work it through.

I wish you all the luck, and hope that your sponsor is someone who understands you and can actually show you a good direction to go.

Sincerely,

Curtis C

Alcoholics can get sober without god, since there is none.
Bill Wilson was wrong about self-will; but we must direct our will toward what keeps us sober. A higher power (HP) is no power at all if it doesn't help us. But as you will read in the page titled Higher Power, Part 2, that HP does not necessarily need to be outside yourself. ©

The Atheist AA,
The Atheist AA Blog,
The First Free Church of Atheism

and the Google group
Atheist AA

are all © or ^SM of the

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Paul in Romans 7; and My Addiction

2010-03-13T10:46:00.000-05:00

My higher power is my self---when I am sober and sane. It isn't supposed to be that way in Alcoholics Anonymous; you can't be your own Higher Power because "The alcoholic at certain times has not effective mental defense against the first drink. [ ] His defense must come from a Higher Power." Chapter Three

Incredibly, there is no mention of Higher Power in chapters 1 or 3, and not again until chapter 7 where it says,

"Follow the dictates of a Higher Power and you will presently live in a new and wonderful world, no matter what your present circumstances."

Well, that is what I do every day, and the way I saw through to my higher power as myself was brought to my attention two days ago, by someone who heard me speak at a Third Step meeting. He said I had incredibly spoken the ideas of Paul in Romans 7.

I only read parts of the Bible, when I need to research something it may (or may not) say. So let me tell you what I said, then relate it to what Paul said.

I said that we all do things when we are using that we don't like, not the least of which is to use at all. We wake up with hangovers, having been in blackouts we don't remember things, we sometimes wake up jail wondering how we got there, and I said we use "descriptive egoism" to explain it.

Those "explanations" would be "My wife pissed me off so I went to the bar." "I hit the wall so I wouldn't hit my kid, and broke my hand." "I wrecked the car" or I threw a tantrum or I quit or got fired, or I spent all my money because...

That because those are "descriptive" of what we think were our reasons, but when we get sober we know they were all just excuses and rationalizations. Somewhere inside each of us is the knowledge that there is something better, because when we do what we rationalize, we ask ourselves why we didn't do what we knew was the right way, or the better way, instead of doing the way we did it.

We see other people doing things the right way. They're relatively happy, sometimes ecstatically happy. And they don't ever seem to do the wrong thing. We wonder if they even have a concept of "the wrong thing", or if they do have it, whether they are ever tempted to follow it.

When we hit bottom it is the horrible realization that all those thoughts of goodness, of the right thing to do, of the better way to do things that we knew in our minds and felt in our hearts, was what we could have done if we had hit bottom sooner, or if we had never chosen the irrational path of destruction in the first place.

St. Paul, in Romans 7, in the New International Version, said this:

¹⁵I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. ¹⁶And if I do what I do not want to do, [i.e., "stay clean"] I agree that the law is good.¹⁸^[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. ¹⁹For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil [the using, in our case] I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. ²⁰Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it."

That "sin living in me" is the powerlessness I have when I take the first drink. But it is also the lack of desire to prevent that first drink, by whatever means necessary. Call your friends in AA or out of AA if they understand; call your sponsor, or call somone and ask her to be your sponsor; but do something.

When I am clean and sober I am doing what I did not want to do before, as seen in Paul's verse 16; or what I could not do before I saw, or before I knew, how to do what was the opposite of the way I had always done before.

The difference is, that after I get sober and work the Steps or my own customized program, I am no longer like Paul who does what he does not want to do without him knowing why--because now I do not want to do what I used to do, and I do know why.

Alcoholics can get sober without god, since there is none.
Bill Wilson was wrong about self-will; but we must direct our will toward what keeps us sober. A higher power (HP) is no power at all if it doesn't help us. But as you will read in the page titled Higher Power, Part 2, that HP does not necessarily need to be outside yourself. ©

The Atheist AA,
The Atheist AA Blog,
The First Free Church of Atheism,
and the Google group
Atheist AA

are all © or ^SM of the

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There Is No Higher Power

2010-02-18T17:58:00.000-05:00

Alcoholics can get sober without god, since there is none.
Bill Wilson was wrong about self-will; but we must direct our will toward what keeps us sober. A higher power (HP) is no power at all if it doesn't help us. But as you will read in the page titled Higher Power, Part 2, that HP does not necessarily need to be outside yourself. ©

The Atheist AA,The Atheist AA Blog,
and the Google group
Atheist AA

are all © or ^SM of the

Free Assemblage of Metaphysical Naturalists LLC

Atheism and Alcoholics

2010-02-17T14:00:00.000-05:00

Alcoholics can get sober without god, since there is none.
Bill Wilson was wrong about self-will; but we must direct our will toward what keeps us sober. A higher power (HP) is no power at all if it doesn't help us. But as you will read in the page titled Higher Power, Part 2, that HP does not necessarily need to be outside yourself. ©

The Atheist AA,The Atheist AA Blog,
and the Google group
Atheist AA

are all © or ^SM of the

Free Assemblage of Metaphysical Naturalists LLC

Atheist Alcoholics and a Higher Power

2010-02-17T10:01:00.000-05:00

Alcoholics can get sober without god, since there is none.
Bill Wilson was wrong about self-will; but we must direct our will toward what keeps us sober. A higher power (HP) is no power at all if it doesn't help us. But as you will read in the page titled Higher Power, Part 2, that HP does not necessarily need to be outside yourself. ©

The Atheist AA,The Atheist AA Blog,
and the Google group
Atheist AA

are all © or ^SM of the

Free Assemblage of Metaphysical Naturalists LLC

Calling All Atheist or Agnostic Alcoholics!

2010-01-05T11:55:00.004-05:00

Where are the atheist alcoholics who either shun Alcoholics Anonymous, or who put up with it? So far not many seem to have found this blog, nor have they found Google Group Atheist AA. (Click there, or on the button to the right of this column.)

This should be a national movement! It may be a small one, but that is beside the point. Alcoholics Anonymous does accept atheists and must do so according to Tradition Three.

And although Step Two says everyone comes to believe that a Power greater than themselves is the means by which everyone will recover
And although Step Two is demeaning and insulting
although the first two bullets are true, the synopsis of this Step on page 5 of the Twelve Steps and the Twelve Traditions clearly states: "A.A. does not demand belief; Twelve Steps are only suggestions.

And while the Big Book says that we do not ally ourselves with any sect or demonination, and it says we do not call ourselves "Presbyterian" groups or the like, the truth is that it allows atheist groups to include the word "atheist" and "agnostic" (but not "atheism" or "agnosticism"--the GSO doesn't accept "isms".)

The Atheist AA Google Group does not sell a product and doesn't tell anyone how they ought to think or believe. Agnostics are welcome. So if you want a rational place to spout or just to comment, join us! Help us grow this group.

Be all you can be as a recovering alcoholic!

Alcoholics can get sober without god, since there is none.
Bill Wilson was wrong about self-will; but we must direct our will toward what keeps us sober. A higher power (HP) is no power at all if it doesn't help us. But as you will read in the page titled Higher Power, Part 2, that HP does not necessarily need to be outside yourself. ©

The Atheist AA,
The Atheist AA Blog,
and the Google group
Atheist AA

are all © or ^SM of the

Free Assemblage of Metaphysical Naturalists LLC

Tradition Two, As Learned from Experience by an Atheist

2009-12-30T14:18:00.003-05:00

For the group purpose, a loving God as He may express Himself in the group conscience is the ultimate authority, as I put it in my own words rather than quote it. I know I don't have it wrong. That's what it says.

God didn't want me attending the group conscience meetings of my home group. I used to attend them. I only missed two in more than two years. But at the last one that I missed, the group conscience decided to move the meeting to a night I could not attend.

Now, if I could not attend because of my own personal commitments, such as piano lessons, or because a judge ordered me to do community service, I would understand.

But I could not attend because I was the elected representative for that group to Intergroup. Intergroup's schedule was well known: first and third Monday of each month. My home group decided to move its conscience meeting to an evening hour, from a 1:00 pm hour, ostensibly so “more people could show up.” But it turns out that it was precisely so the “right people” could show up. Those “right people” were the elders, the one's who had started the group. They had commitments during the 1:00 pm hour. I understand that. Strange thing is, now fewer people show up.

What I don't understand is why their God chose to make it very night that He knew I had an elected meeting to attend for the very group that was choosing to exclude me.

When I found out about this change, I asked one of those elders about it. He said that was the “group conscience speaking”. I asked why it had to be Monday and not some other night. He answered that Monday was the night the group conscience chose. I asked if that could be changed so that I could continue to go to the group conscience meetings. He flatly said no, that it was the group conscience that it should be that particular Monday.

Now, I liked my group. Of course when I spoke of my experience, strength or hope it was often contrary to the members who believed in God, but that group has a “no cross-talk” rule that includes criticizing other people's testimony. But most of the time I was thanked afterward for speaking my mind. Sometimes the thanks came from one of the elders. Sometimes it came from other atheists. Sometimes it just came from someone who was able to take away from my words something he or she needed to hear.

One time it was from a visitor from out of town, who thanked me for telling other people who might have a problem with the “God part” of A.A. to “just keep coming back” because they could always find a reason at the table that would help them stay strong. That particular time I even said that the Big Book says we must go to any length necessary, and while I didn't find it necessary to seek God after nearly 4 years in A.A., maybe they would come to the conclusion that for them it was necessary. Good for them! I said. Whatever it takes! Just keep coming back!

So I was not a pariah in my group. I didn't always speak contrarily; sometimes I affirmed the topic even while denying that God had any part in it for me. It was because I was able to say how I could do it without God that I often got the most comments after the meeting. thanks from people who also found it hard to accept that God would have a hand in some particular thing in their lives. Often they were agnostics who leaned more toward a belief in God than a non-belief.

When I heard that the group's conscience meeting could not be changed because it was the group conscience, I immediately thought of this Tradition. After some personal thinking, I told one of the group's elders I had my own conscience problem: I could not be the conscience of that group at the Intergroup meetings when I could not attend the group conscience meetings.
Funny thing is, that elder thought I meant I was quitting Intergroup so I could attend the group conscience meetings. I said no, I wanted to stay with Intergroup, so I become the representative for another group, one that I had helped create: Atheists and Spirituality, group # 688207. I am also the GSR for that group.

After more thinking, I have subsequently quit the first group altogether. I do not need to attend a meeting where God, as the ultimate authority, has decided I am not to be. I don't blame God, however. Atheists don't believe God exists, so I must blame it all on the people who first voted to put me on Intergroup, and then decided that I no longer needed to attend the group's conscience meetings.

At least when my atheist group has conscience meetings, we are honest and blame any consequences on ourselves. We don't foist it off on God. I'll bet if I asked God, he would rather see the group meet another night so I could go back to being part of the the group conscience, and go back to the group itself in order to fulfill the Responsibility Statement, which I hold near and dear. The atheists' group closes with it.

Perhaps this article will help those whose thinking is entrenched in the idea that no one can make it in A.A. without God, as to why so many people who don't have God do not make it in A.A.: they are not met with “the hand of A.A.” which does not demand belief. Instead, they are met with the hand of people who tell them they will fail without God, that Dr. Bob said we who try to make it on our own are to be “pitied”, and that when God says something through the group, that's the way it's got to be—it can't be changed.

And that is what I mean by being honest and blaming such decisions on the people in the group, not on God. Those people could have decided on the second Monday if they wanted Monday; or on the first Tuesday if they wanted it in the first week of the month. Instead, God said it had to be the first Monday, and that's that.

I just turned 55, and I've been atheist since I was 4. You are not going to change me. But as long as I keep coming back I can always find a way to stay clean and sober, because I have a desire to stop drinking, our only requirement.

No, it wasn't God who wanted me out of the group. The elders who thought the first Monday of the month was the only appropriate day they would settle for wanted me out, because it was they who voted to make me the Intergroup representative. They didn't want me out of the group itself, but out of the conscience meetings. Why, I still don't know. They said God wanted it that way.

Alcoholics can get sober without god, since there is none.
Bill Wilson was wrong about self-will; but we must direct our will toward what keeps us sober. A higher power (HP) is no power at all if it doesn't help us. But as you will read in the page titled Higher Power, Part 2, that HP does not necessarily need to be outside yourself. ©

The Atheist AA,
The Atheist AA Blog,
and the Google group
Atheist AA

are all © or ^SM of the

Free Assemblage of Metaphysical Naturalists LLC

Atheist Church

2009-12-29T08:20:00.004-05:00

"[W]hether atheism is a 'religion' for First Amendment purposes is a somewhat different question than whether its adherents believe in a supreme being, or attend regular devotional services, or have a sacred Scripture. The Supreme Court has said that a religion, for purposes of the First Amendment, is distinct from a 'way of life,' even if that way of life is inspired by philosophical beliefs or other secular concerns. See Wisconsin v. Yoder, 406 U.S. 205, 215-16, 92 S.Ct. 1526, 32 L.Ed.2d 15 (1972)."

Several courts have also ruled that atheists cannot be assigned to attend meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous as part of their sentencing guidlines for alcohol related convictions.

In Kaufman v. McCaughtry, 419 F.3d 678 Kaufman argues that the prison officials violated his constitutional rights when they refused to give him permission to start a study group for atheist inmates at the prison, that the defendants' refusal to permit him to meet with other atheist inmates to study and discuss their beliefs violates the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment.

At one time it was thought (by some) that this right [referring to the right to choose one's own creed] merely proscribed the preference of one Christian sect over another, but would not require equal respect for the conscience of the infidel, the atheist, or the adherent of a non-Christian faith such as Islam or Judaism.

It was not thought to be this way by Jefferson and some of the other Founders. Jefferson wrote in his auobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom, which pre-dated the Constitution:

"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting 'Jesus Christ,' so that it would read 'A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;' the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."

So when the underlying principle had been examined in the crucible of litigation, the Court unambiguously concluded that the individual freedom of conscience protected by the First Amendment embraces the right to select any religious faith or none at all.

Atheism was Kaufman's religion, and the group that he wanted to start was religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being. As he explained in his application, the group wanted to study freedom of thought, religious beliefs, creeds, dogmas, tenets, rituals, and practices, all presumably from an atheistic perspective.

That is the definition of a church for the practice of understanding it. The First Free Church of Atheism exists for the study of freedom of thought, religious beliefs, creeds, dogmas, tenets, rituals, and practices, all from an atheistic perspective.

There is nothing more, nothing less, in its purpose.

Alcoholics can get sober without god, since there is none.
Bill Wilson was wrong about self-will; but we must direct our will toward what keeps us sober. A higher power (HP) is no power at all if it doesn't help us. But as you will read in the page titled Higher Power, Part 2, that HP does not necessarily need to be outside yourself. ©

The Atheist AA,
The Atheist AA Blog,
and the Google group
Atheist AA

are all © or ^SM of the

Free Assemblage of Metaphysical Naturalists LLC

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays

2009-12-25T14:00:00.004-05:00

I don't blog here much. Mostly I'm over at the Atheist AA Google Group, the Alcoholics Anonymous group for agnostics and atheists.

But I thought I would take a moment to wish everyone a happy holiday, including Merry Christmas. If you think atheists shouldn't appreciate Christmas anymore than they should be in the God-driven Alcoholics Anonymous groups, you have some more thinking to do.

Here is a wonderful piece written by Ankar Ghate about why he, as an atheist, in in love with Christmas.

To visit the Atheists Alcoholics Anonymous Group, you can click on the badge on the right, or on the title of this piece. The group is not associated with A.A. Worldwide.

Curtis C

Alcoholics can get sober without god, since there is none.
Bill Wilson was wrong about self-will; but we must direct our will toward what keeps us sober. A higher power (HP) is no power at all if it doesn't help us. But as you will read in the page titled Higher Power, Part 2, that HP does not necessarily need to be outside yourself. ©

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Bill and Bob's Prejudice

2009-11-19T10:36:00.008-05:00

Sometimes I find it funny, yet terribly unsettling, when someone makes public statements that show them to be without the knowledge they need if they are to make statements purporting them to be knowledgeable on a given subject.

A case in point that just came to my attention are the comments [see] made by one "Lisa" to the editor@positiveatheism.org. I don't know what comments were originally made by this .org, but we can get a good presumption by reading "Lisa"'s comments:

"Where does it say in the Big Book that we have to get rid of prejudice?...It is very sad that people are so closed minded that they see and hear things that are not even being said. .."

Not even being said? Lisa seems to "see no evil", nor hear it, assuming she has ever been to an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting where the Big Book was actually being read.

I recently took my turn speaking at the table on a subject, and from my own "experience, strength, and hope" I spoke about finding a higher power that was not a supernatural deity. No sooner than I was done than someone else began to "counterpoint" what I had said---by quoting Dr. Bob:

"If you think you are an atheist, an agnostic, a skeptic, or have any other form of intellectual pride which keeps you from accepting what is in this book, I feel sorry for you." Big Book page 181

And there is this, from page 56: "In this book you will read the experience of a man who thought he was an atheist. [ ] His change of heart was dramatic, convincing, and moving...He stood in the Presence of Infinite Power and Love. For the first time, he lived in conscious companionship with his Creator."

Bill and Bob seemed to believe, as Bill wrote, that "To be doomed to an alcoholic death or to live on a spiritual basis" left only one alternative, and that was God. But spiritualism has nothing to do with God, except to those who would lead us away from what is to found within us no matter what name you put to it.

Ahh, yes, that pesky idea of what is "natural": "...in fact, we could will [recovery] with all our might, but the needed power wasn't there. Our human resources, as marshalled by the will, were not sufficient; they failed utterly." (page 45)

Poor, poor Bill, not to have what I have. It must be terrible to be in such need of a power outside one's self.

It is also terribly unsettling when someone makes public statements that show them to be without the knowledge they need if they are to make statements purporting them to be knowledgeable on a given subject.I am atheist, since the age of four, on principle. Yet I had one of those powerful spiritual experiences Bill said people sometimes have in the beginning, yet which some never have though they may die sober.

If acceptance of god as your higher power is the length necessary for you to go to become and reamain sober, more power to you. Unlike the intellectually prideful Dr. Bob, I don't pity anyone for going to the necessary lengths; but neither do I pity them if they find their necessary length to to go is shorter than what Bill and Bob had to succumb to.

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Atheists in Alcoholics Anonymous

2009-11-16T12:28:00.002-05:00

Should atheists go to Alcoholics Anonymous meetings? I say yes, but I also say "it depends". It depends on the particular meeting you go to.

Some meetings are very god-oriented. That is their right, according to the "Traditions" and the "Concepts" of AA, which state that every group is autonomous. Every group must operate according to its own "conscience". Most groups have regular consciousness meetings, which are sometimes called "business" meetings, or "steering committees". If any particular group wants to make god the dominant theme of its meeting, that is its right.

It is also AA Tradition that no one can be asked to leave a meeting just because the other attendees don't like the message you are proclaiming as yours. But it doesn't seem wise to go into such a group and stir things up. I stir things up at meetings that are less god-oriented, meetings that accept the message of AA on the issue of god but which do not make it the one, over-riding theme of their group. I do not stir things up to be contrary. I do it because it is my AA right; so I choose my groups and only attend those that show tolerance toward other points of view.

A "newbie" in AA might wish to be careful about being contrary. Most groups don't allow "cross talking", and that usually means addressing directly what someone else has said in a contrary manner. It might be seen as taking someone else's inventory, a strict no-no anywhere you go.

But if you speak from your own "experience, strength, or hope", then no one can say you are not allowed to disagree with the AA approved literature. The Big Book itself admits that there was a lot of controversy in the first few years about what should be the official stance of the groups, and about who could say what about what. The reason that the Twelve Steps talk about your god "as you understand him" is because so many early member objected to language that put them in one box together, all praying to the same god.

And as logic would have it, many of those early members, and even more today I would suppose, have a different conception of how they understand "god". Some of them don't see god as a deity at all, but rather as the forces of nature.

But in order for an atheist to feel comfortable in a group that does have many virtues, the biggest being its ability to keep people sober who want to be sober, that atheist ought to be in a group where he/she feels comfortable speaking about his/her disbelief or atheism. You may have to point out to some recalcitrant, beligerant members that you have as much right to speak as they do.

The General Service Organization, the headquarters of AA, puts out a publication called "Box 459", and in an early 2009 edition it published a story of a man who uses a GI Joe doll as his higher power! That same GSO is the one who gave my atheist home group a registration number and lists it in its directory right alongside all the god-oriented groups.

But for the same reason as a Catholic member will not (or should not) argue against a Pagan or Southern Baptist member's point of view, we atheists cannot be beligerant and argue against the god position of AA, unless we do it as everyone must: from our own experiences, strengths, and hopes, not on the contrary opinions of others.

And if others take issue in the meeting with out point of view, we have the right to call "Point of Order" and politely set them straight. No one is allowed in a meeting to criticize the beliefs or positions of other members. The old timers who value the Traditions will have your back, even if they don't like your message.

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Atheism As Justified True Belief

2009-11-15T13:36:00.000-05:00

Acceptance of "the Given" [1] *

Atheism is a not a belief system for those who know there is no supernatural entity by any name.

How can anyone know this? The same way anyone can know anything--as a "justified true belief". [2]

First, something must be accepted as true. This is stated in logic as

1. p is true

Then the person accepts the statement as fact. For example, the sky is blue represents the form of "p is true." Therefore,

2. Mary believes p is true

And finally, because p is true

3. Mary is justified in believing the sky is blue.

"Mary believes the sky is blue" is not a belief "system." It is a statement about what Mary believes about the statement "p is true."

In this way a justified true belief is a statement about one's acceptance of what is classified as a "given."

[1] "A skyscraper is a man-made fact, a mountain is a metaphysically given fact...Nature is the metaphysically given—i.e., the nature of nature is outside the power of any volition." Ayn Rand

[2] The Analysis of Knowledge; Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

* Originally published here in April, '09.

Alcoholics can get sober without god, since there is none.
Bill Wilson was wrong about self-will; but we must direct our will toward what keeps us sober. A higher power (HP) is no power at all if it doesn't help us. But as you will read in the page titled Higher Power, Part 2, that HP does not necessarily need to be outside yourself. ©

The Atheist AA,
The Atheist AA Blog,
and the Google group
Atheist AA

Free Assemblage of Metaphysical Naturalists LLC

Sobriety As A Higher Power

2009-11-15T11:52:00.006-05:00

I am a life-long atheist. 50 years I've been an atheist and I only turn 55 this year. I remember sitting in Sunday School class at the age of 4 thinking, "God doesn't exist, and Jesus doesn't love me because he's dead."

Then I became an alcoholic.

Then I got sober by making use of Alcoholics Anonymous. This blog will chronicle my thoughts about being atheist in a god-driven spiritual program.

I have no problem with spirituality. It's just that spiritualism isn't supernatural, and where ever that spiritual feeling within the body comes from neurologically, it is borne from the consciousness of a biological entity and it dies with that body, with that consciousness, with that life.

Atheists are not supposed to believe in the spirit, so I've heard. But then, what do I call that overwhelming feeling of love for my own life, for the lives of other people I love, and for that sense of wonder that is my own intelligent understanding of the nature of the existence of existence?

Since I don't believe in supernaturalism, that makes me some sort of naturalist. The naturalists can't decide on common definitions for themselves; but in any case they all claim not to believe in free will. Since I will stay sober if I do what I'm supposed to do, I guess I believe in free will because I'm free to continue day by day to do one of two things: pick up a drink---or not pick up a drink. So maybe I'm not a naturalist, but I'm atheist and I'm alcoholic.

"Alcohol...bleeds us of all self-sufficiency and all will to resist its demands," it say in the AA book the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions.¹I hate words that rob me of my humanness, and telling me I have no will of my own with which to overcome my boo-boos whether they are physical or mental robs me.

That is, until we find the will to resist its demands. That is the power of being human, I content. The traditional AA will say it is god's will, not ours, or something to that effect.

Well, believe what you will. And within that idea that we believe what we will lies the idea that what you believe is what you will to believe. Otherwise, you would have to say you were forced by god to believe what you will. That sounds contradictory to me.

When I found the will to resist alcohol it was after years of soul searching; and while the actual realization--and the subsequent admission--that I was powerless over alcohol came over me in one brief, explosive moment, it must be admitted that I am powerless when I take a drink, not when I don't take a drink. If I will not take a drink, then I will stay sober.

Alcoholics can get sober without god, since there is none.
Bill Wilson was wrong about self-will; but we must direct our will toward what keeps us sober. A higher power (HP) is no power at all if it doesn't help us. But as you will read in the page titled Higher Power, Part 2, that HP does not necessarily need to be outside yourself. ©

The Atheist AA,
The Atheist AA Blog,
and the Google group
Atheist AA

Free Assemblage of Metaphysical Naturalists LLC